Discussion:
Out on the road
(too old to reply)
JNugent
2025-01-02 16:50:46 UTC
Permalink
<https://www.facebook.com/share/r/12FMKAD2WN8/>
Spike
2025-01-02 17:05:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by JNugent
<https://www.facebook.com/share/r/12FMKAD2WN8/>
How does one teach anticipation?

Even more importantly, how does one learn it?

Q: One is passed by a vehicle. It starts to slow down. A side turning is
approaching. What should one do?
--
Spike
JNugent
2025-01-02 17:07:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Spike
Post by JNugent
<https://www.facebook.com/share/r/12FMKAD2WN8/>
How does one teach anticipation?
Even more importantly, how does one learn it?
Q: One is passed by a vehicle. It starts to slow down. A side turning is
approaching. What should one do?
Give way to traffic to your right (ie, offside) and do not overtake on
the nearside?

That was drummed into me by my instructor, more than fifty years ago, of
course.
Spike
2025-01-02 17:11:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by JNugent
Post by Spike
Post by JNugent
<https://www.facebook.com/share/r/12FMKAD2WN8/>
How does one teach anticipation?
Even more importantly, how does one learn it?
Q: One is passed by a vehicle. It starts to slow down. A side turning is
approaching. What should one do?
Give way to traffic to your right (ie, offside) and do not overtake on
the nearside?
That was drummed into me by my instructor, more than fifty years ago, of
course.
The absolute worst thing such a vehicle driver could do under those
left-turn circumstances is to stop to let cycles by. He will then have a
poorer view of the cycle lane. Is he supposed to stay there forever?
--
Spike
JNugent
2025-01-02 17:12:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Spike
Post by JNugent
Post by Spike
Post by JNugent
<https://www.facebook.com/share/r/12FMKAD2WN8/>
How does one teach anticipation?
Even more importantly, how does one learn it?
Q: One is passed by a vehicle. It starts to slow down. A side turning is
approaching. What should one do?
Give way to traffic to your right (ie, offside) and do not overtake on
the nearside?
That was drummed into me by my instructor, more than fifty years ago, of
course.
The absolute worst thing such a vehicle driver could do under those
left-turn circumstances is to stop to let cycles by. He will then have a
poorer view of the cycle lane. Is he supposed to stay there forever?
I'm sure that there are those who "think" exactly that!
Brian
2025-01-06 08:01:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by JNugent
Post by Spike
Post by JNugent
<https://www.facebook.com/share/r/12FMKAD2WN8/>
How does one teach anticipation?
Even more importantly, how does one learn it?
Q: One is passed by a vehicle. It starts to slow down. A side turning is
approaching. What should one do?
Give way to traffic to your right (ie, offside) and do not overtake on
the nearside?
That was drummed into me by my instructor, more than fifty years ago, of
course.
Did you watch the video?
JNugent
2025-01-06 10:20:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian
Post by JNugent
Post by Spike
Post by JNugent
<https://www.facebook.com/share/r/12FMKAD2WN8/>
How does one teach anticipation?
Even more importantly, how does one learn it?
Q: One is passed by a vehicle. It starts to slow down. A side turning is
approaching. What should one do?
Give way to traffic to your right (ie, offside) and do not overtake on
the nearside?
That was drummed into me by my instructor, more than fifty years ago, of
course.
Did you watch the video?
I certainly did, complete with the foolhardy attempted overtake on the
nearside. At least the fairy-cyclist now knows *why* overtaking on the
nearside is such a no-no.

A novice teenaged driver with just his theory test and one practical
lesson under his belt would warn against that, as I am sure you agree.
Brian
2025-01-06 08:01:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Spike
Post by JNugent
<https://www.facebook.com/share/r/12FMKAD2WN8/>
How does one teach anticipation?
Even more importantly, how does one learn it?
Q: One is passed by a vehicle. It starts to slow down. A side turning is
approaching. What should one do?
In fairness, the Tesco van was at fault.

He should have checked his mirror AND been aware he’d just passed a
cyclist.


Essentially, the situation was no different to a road with two lanes and
someone turning left from the right hand one, across the path of another
vehicle.


Arguing the cyclist should have noticed the driver slowing down etc does
not excuse the driver.
JNugent
2025-01-06 10:21:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian
Post by Spike
Post by JNugent
<https://www.facebook.com/share/r/12FMKAD2WN8/>
How does one teach anticipation?
Even more importantly, how does one learn it?
Q: One is passed by a vehicle. It starts to slow down. A side turning is
approaching. What should one do?
In fairness, the Tesco van was at fault.
He should have checked his mirror AND been aware he’d just passed a
cyclist.
Essentially, the situation was no different to a road with two lanes and
someone turning left from the right hand one, across the path of another
vehicle.
Arguing the cyclist should have noticed the driver slowing down etc does
not excuse the driver.
What is the purpose of a multi-lane highway?

In particular, what is the difference between the nearside and the
offside lanes?
Brian
2025-01-06 16:28:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by JNugent
Post by Brian
Post by Spike
Post by JNugent
<https://www.facebook.com/share/r/12FMKAD2WN8/>
How does one teach anticipation?
Even more importantly, how does one learn it?
Q: One is passed by a vehicle. It starts to slow down. A side turning is
approaching. What should one do?
In fairness, the Tesco van was at fault.
He should have checked his mirror AND been aware he’d just passed a
cyclist.
Essentially, the situation was no different to a road with two lanes and
someone turning left from the right hand one, across the path of another
vehicle.
Arguing the cyclist should have noticed the driver slowing down etc does
not excuse the driver.
What is the purpose of a multi-lane highway?
In particular, what is the difference between the nearside and the
offside lanes?
Irrelevant to the issue at hand.

Someone in a lane has right of way over someone turning across it unless
there is a signal (traffic light etc).

I've zero tolerance for mad cyclists but my lack of tolerance extends to
bad drivers. He could just have easily turned across a car due to his
failure to check his mirror.
Spike
2025-01-03 09:12:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by JNugent
<https://www.facebook.com/share/r/12FMKAD2WN8/>
Here lies the body of William Jay,
Who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sped along,
But now he’s as dead as if he was wrong.
--
Spike
Brian
2025-01-06 08:22:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Spike
Post by JNugent
<https://www.facebook.com/share/r/12FMKAD2WN8/>
Here lies the body of William Jay,
Who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sped along,
But now he’s as dead as if he was wrong.
One of the things those driving vehicles like the one in the video need to
be especially aware of is poorer visibility on their near side.

The driver in the video had just over taken the cyclist - who was in the
cycle lane and cycling responsibly. The van over took him so, presumably,
he wasn’t speeding even if he was making good progress.

The driver should not only have been aware of the cyclist but should have
checked his near side mirror. He certainly should not have turned across
the path of the cyclist who was in the cycle lane and had no viable
opportunity to take avoiding action- even bikes require time to stop.

Had I been driving the van- or my motorhome- and seen the cyclist etc
knowing I wanted to turn left, I’d have slowed down, let him clear the
junction, then made my turn. I would not have made the initial overtake -
it was pointless.
Spike
2025-01-06 09:42:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian
Post by Spike
Post by JNugent
<https://www.facebook.com/share/r/12FMKAD2WN8/>
Here lies the body of William Jay,
Who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sped along,
But now he’s as dead as if he was wrong.
One of the things those driving vehicles like the one in the video need to
be especially aware of is poorer visibility on their near side.
The driver in the video had just over taken the cyclist - who was in the
cycle lane and cycling responsibly. The van over took him so, presumably,
he wasn’t speeding even if he was making good progress.
The driver should not only have been aware of the cyclist but should have
checked his near side mirror. He certainly should not have turned across
the path of the cyclist who was in the cycle lane and had no viable
opportunity to take avoiding action- even bikes require time to stop.
Had I been driving the van- or my motorhome- and seen the cyclist etc
knowing I wanted to turn left, I’d have slowed down, let him clear the
junction, then made my turn. I would not have made the initial overtake -
it was pointless.
Oh, I don’t disagree with that. The cyclist was in error because he didn’t
anticipate what was going to happen, but appeared to carry merrily on his
way on the grounds that he was in the right.

What the cyclist failed to note was that he was passed by the van, which,
with a clear road ahead of him, then slowed down. The question the cyclist
should have asked is ‘why?’. There may have been a pedestrian crossing the
road but hidden by the van, for example, which could have resulted in a
cyclist-pedestrian collision. Or the van could have been preparing to turn
right or left.

Even then, the cyclist had time to swerve left into the side road and avoid
a collision, which to my mind is a far more satisfactory situation than
being injured but ‘right’.

It’s not a case of following the rules, it’s a case of self-preservation
which, to my mind, trumps everything, hence the little rhyme I quoted. I
speak as someone who rode motorcycles for 64 years, and I was never knocked
off by another vehicle because of a keen sense of anticipation, which I
commend to all road users.
--
Spike
JNugent
2025-01-06 10:23:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian
Post by Spike
Post by JNugent
<https://www.facebook.com/share/r/12FMKAD2WN8/>
Here lies the body of William Jay,
Who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sped along,
But now he’s as dead as if he was wrong.
One of the things those driving vehicles like the one in the video need to
be especially aware of is poorer visibility on their near side.
The driver in the video had just over taken the cyclist - who was in the
cycle lane and cycling responsibly. The van over took him so, presumably,
he wasn’t speeding even if he was making good progress.
The driver should not only have been aware of the cyclist but should have
checked his near side mirror. He certainly should not have turned across
the path of the cyclist who was in the cycle lane and had no viable
opportunity to take avoiding action- even bikes require time to stop.
Had I been driving the van- or my motorhome- and seen the cyclist etc
knowing I wanted to turn left, I’d have slowed down, let him clear the
junction, then made my turn. I would not have made the initial overtake -
it was pointless.
You'd have waited, stationary in the middle of the road, holding up any
following traffic, and allowing any number of fairy-cyclists who
happened to be on the road to overtake you on the nearside?

Can you see any flaws in that approach?

In particular, any unwarranted overturning of the basic rules of the
road as they have long been known?
Brian
2025-01-06 16:15:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by JNugent
Post by Brian
Post by Spike
Post by JNugent
<https://www.facebook.com/share/r/12FMKAD2WN8/>
Here lies the body of William Jay,
Who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sped along,
But now he’s as dead as if he was wrong.
One of the things those driving vehicles like the one in the video need to
be especially aware of is poorer visibility on their near side.
The driver in the video had just over taken the cyclist - who was in the
cycle lane and cycling responsibly.  The van over took him so,
presumably,
he wasn’t speeding even if he was making good progress.
The driver should not only have been aware of the cyclist but should have
checked his near side mirror. He certainly should not have turned across
the path of the cyclist who was in the cycle lane and had no viable
opportunity to take avoiding action- even bikes require time to stop.
Had I been driving the van- or my motorhome- and seen the cyclist etc
knowing I wanted to turn left, I’d have slowed down, let him clear the
junction, then made my turn.  I would not have made the initial
overtake -
it was pointless.
You'd have waited, stationary in the middle of the road, holding up any
following traffic, and allowing any number of fairy-cyclists who
happened to be on the road to overtake you on the nearside?
Can you see any flaws in that approach?
In particular, any unwarranted overturning of the basic rules of the
road as they have long been known?
Not really any different to stopping to make any other maneuver.
JNugent
2025-01-06 16:46:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian
Post by JNugent
Post by Brian
Post by Spike
Post by JNugent
<https://www.facebook.com/share/r/12FMKAD2WN8/>
Here lies the body of William Jay,
Who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sped along,
But now he’s as dead as if he was wrong.
One of the things those driving vehicles like the one in the video need to
be especially aware of is poorer visibility on their near side.
The driver in the video had just over taken the cyclist - who was in the
cycle lane and cycling responsibly.  The van over took him so,
presumably,
he wasn’t speeding even if he was making good progress.
The driver should not only have been aware of the cyclist but should have
checked his near side mirror. He certainly should not have turned across
the path of the cyclist who was in the cycle lane and had no viable
opportunity to take avoiding action- even bikes require time to stop.
Had I been driving the van- or my motorhome- and seen the cyclist etc
knowing I wanted to turn left, I’d have slowed down, let him clear the
junction, then made my turn.  I would not have made the initial
overtake -
it was pointless.
You'd have waited, stationary in the middle of the road, holding up
any following traffic, and allowing any number of fairy-cyclists who
happened to be on the road to overtake you on the nearside?
Can you see any flaws in that approach?
In particular, any unwarranted overturning of the basic rules of the
road as they have long been known?
Not really any different to stopping to make any other maneuver.
In the middle of the road, telling oneself that one cannot move in
either direction?
trevor
2025-01-06 21:33:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by JNugent
Post by Brian
Post by JNugent
Post by Brian
Post by Spike
Post by JNugent
<https://www.facebook.com/share/r/12FMKAD2WN8/>
Here lies the body of William Jay,
Who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sped along,
But now he’s as dead as if he was wrong.
One of the things those driving vehicles like the one in the
video need to be especially aware of is poorer visibility on
their near side.
The driver in the video had just over taken the cyclist - who
was in the cycle lane and cycling responsibly.  The van over
took him so, presumably, he wasn’t speeding even if he was
making good progress.
The driver should not only have been aware of the cyclist but
should have checked his near side mirror. He certainly should
not have turned across the path of the cyclist who was in the
cycle lane and had no viable opportunity to take avoiding
action- even bikes require time to stop.
Had I been driving the van- or my motorhome- and seen the
cyclist etc knowing I wanted to turn left, I’d have slowed
down, let him clear the junction, then made my turn.  I would
not have made the initial overtake - it was pointless.
You'd have waited, stationary in the middle of the road, holding
up any following traffic, and allowing any number of
fairy-cyclists who happened to be on the road to overtake you on
the nearside?
Can you see any flaws in that approach?
In particular, any unwarranted overturning of the basic rules of
the road as they have long been known?
Not really any different to stopping to make any other maneuver.
In the middle of the road, telling oneself that one cannot move in
either direction?
No different if one has to turn left across a Bus Lane. Wait.
JNugent
2025-01-07 15:10:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by trevor
Post by JNugent
Post by Brian
Post by JNugent
Post by Brian
Post by Spike
Post by JNugent
<https://www.facebook.com/share/r/12FMKAD2WN8/>
Here lies the body of William Jay,
Who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sped along,
But now he’s as dead as if he was wrong.
One of the things those driving vehicles like the one in the
video need to be especially aware of is poorer visibility on
their near side.
The driver in the video had just over taken the cyclist - who
was in the cycle lane and cycling responsibly.  The van over
took him so, presumably, he wasn’t speeding even if he was
making good progress.
The driver should not only have been aware of the cyclist but
should have checked his near side mirror. He certainly should
not have turned across the path of the cyclist who was in the
cycle lane and had no viable opportunity to take avoiding
action- even bikes require time to stop.
Had I been driving the van- or my motorhome- and seen the
cyclist etc knowing I wanted to turn left, I’d have slowed
down, let him clear the junction, then made my turn.  I would
not have made the initial overtake - it was pointless.
You'd have waited, stationary in the middle of the road, holding
up any following traffic, and allowing any number of
fairy-cyclists who happened to be on the road to overtake you on
the nearside?
Can you see any flaws in that approach?
In particular, any unwarranted overturning of the basic rules of
the road as they have long been known?
Not really any different to stopping to make any other maneuver.
In the middle of the road, telling oneself that one cannot move in
either direction?
No different if one has to turn left across a Bus Lane. Wait.
It's a lane, not another separate highway.

Ceding priority to a lane to one's left is yet another unwarranted
overturning of the basic rules of the road as they have long existed
and been known.
Brian
2025-01-07 15:48:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by trevor
Post by JNugent
Post by Brian
Post by JNugent
Post by Brian
Post by Spike
Post by JNugent
<https://www.facebook.com/share/r/12FMKAD2WN8/>
Here lies the body of William Jay,
Who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sped along,
But now he’s as dead as if he was wrong.
One of the things those driving vehicles like the one in the
video need to be especially aware of is poorer visibility on
their near side.
The driver in the video had just over taken the cyclist - who
was in the cycle lane and cycling responsibly.  The van over
took him so, presumably, he wasn’t speeding even if he was
making good progress.
The driver should not only have been aware of the cyclist but
should have checked his near side mirror. He certainly should
not have turned across the path of the cyclist who was in the
cycle lane and had no viable opportunity to take avoiding
action- even bikes require time to stop.
Had I been driving the van- or my motorhome- and seen the
cyclist etc knowing I wanted to turn left, I’d have slowed
down, let him clear the junction, then made my turn.  I would
not have made the initial overtake - it was pointless.
You'd have waited, stationary in the middle of the road, holding
up any following traffic, and allowing any number of
fairy-cyclists who happened to be on the road to overtake you on
the nearside?
Can you see any flaws in that approach?
In particular, any unwarranted overturning of the basic rules of
the road as they have long been known?
Not really any different to stopping to make any other maneuver.
In the middle of the road, telling oneself that one cannot move in
either direction?
No different if one has to turn left across a Bus Lane. Wait.
Exactly.
JNugent
2025-01-07 16:14:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian
Post by trevor
Post by JNugent
Post by Brian
Post by JNugent
Post by Brian
Post by Spike
Post by JNugent
<https://www.facebook.com/share/r/12FMKAD2WN8/>
Here lies the body of William Jay,
Who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sped along,
But now he’s as dead as if he was wrong.
One of the things those driving vehicles like the one in the
video need to be especially aware of is poorer visibility on
their near side.
The driver in the video had just over taken the cyclist - who
was in the cycle lane and cycling responsibly.  The van over
took him so, presumably, he wasn’t speeding even if he was
making good progress.
The driver should not only have been aware of the cyclist but
should have checked his near side mirror. He certainly should
not have turned across the path of the cyclist who was in the
cycle lane and had no viable opportunity to take avoiding
action- even bikes require time to stop.
Had I been driving the van- or my motorhome- and seen the
cyclist etc knowing I wanted to turn left, I’d have slowed
down, let him clear the junction, then made my turn.  I would
not have made the initial overtake - it was pointless.
You'd have waited, stationary in the middle of the road, holding
up any following traffic, and allowing any number of
fairy-cyclists who happened to be on the road to overtake you on
the nearside?
Can you see any flaws in that approach?
In particular, any unwarranted overturning of the basic rules of
the road as they have long been known?
Not really any different to stopping to make any other maneuver.
In the middle of the road, telling oneself that one cannot move in
either direction?
No different if one has to turn left across a Bus Lane. Wait.
Exactly.
It's a lane, not another separate highway.

Ceding priority to a lane to one's left is yet another unwarranted
overturning of the basic rules of the road as they have long existed
and been known.
Brian
2025-01-07 22:36:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by JNugent
Post by Brian
Post by trevor
Post by JNugent
Post by Brian
Post by JNugent
Post by Brian
Post by Spike
Post by JNugent
<https://www.facebook.com/share/r/12FMKAD2WN8/>
Here lies the body of William Jay,
Who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sped along,
But now he’s as dead as if he was wrong.
One of the things those driving vehicles like the one in the
video need to be especially aware of is poorer visibility on
their near side.
The driver in the video had just over taken the cyclist - who
was in the cycle lane and cycling responsibly.  The van over
took him so, presumably, he wasn’t speeding even if he was
making good progress.
The driver should not only have been aware of the cyclist but
should have checked his near side mirror. He certainly should
not have turned across the path of the cyclist who was in the
cycle lane and had no viable opportunity to take avoiding
action- even bikes require time to stop.
Had I been driving the van- or my motorhome- and seen the
cyclist etc knowing I wanted to turn left, I’d have slowed
down, let him clear the junction, then made my turn.  I would
not have made the initial overtake - it was pointless.
You'd have waited, stationary in the middle of the road, holding
up any following traffic, and allowing any number of
fairy-cyclists who happened to be on the road to overtake you on
the nearside?
Can you see any flaws in that approach?
In particular, any unwarranted overturning of the basic rules of
the road as they have long been known?
Not really any different to stopping to make any other maneuver.
In the middle of the road, telling oneself that one cannot move in
either direction?
No different if one has to turn left across a Bus Lane. Wait.
Exactly.
It's a lane, not another separate highway.
Ceding priority to a lane to one's left is yet another unwarranted
overturning of the basic rules of the road as they have long existed
and been known.
Try explaining that if you cause an accident.
JNugent
2025-01-08 00:54:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian
Post by JNugent
Post by Brian
Post by trevor
Post by JNugent
Post by Brian
Post by JNugent
Post by Brian
Post by Spike
Post by JNugent
<https://www.facebook.com/share/r/12FMKAD2WN8/>
Here lies the body of William Jay,
Who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sped along,
But now he’s as dead as if he was wrong.
One of the things those driving vehicles like the one in the
video need to be especially aware of is poorer visibility on
their near side.
The driver in the video had just over taken the cyclist - who
was in the cycle lane and cycling responsibly.  The van over
took him so, presumably, he wasn’t speeding even if he was
making good progress.
The driver should not only have been aware of the cyclist but
should have checked his near side mirror. He certainly should
not have turned across the path of the cyclist who was in the
cycle lane and had no viable opportunity to take avoiding
action- even bikes require time to stop.
Had I been driving the van- or my motorhome- and seen the
cyclist etc knowing I wanted to turn left, I’d have slowed
down, let him clear the junction, then made my turn.  I would
not have made the initial overtake - it was pointless.
You'd have waited, stationary in the middle of the road, holding
up any following traffic, and allowing any number of
fairy-cyclists who happened to be on the road to overtake you on
the nearside?
Can you see any flaws in that approach?
In particular, any unwarranted overturning of the basic rules of
the road as they have long been known?
Not really any different to stopping to make any other maneuver.
In the middle of the road, telling oneself that one cannot move in
either direction?
No different if one has to turn left across a Bus Lane. Wait.
Exactly.
It's a lane, not another separate highway.
Ceding priority to a lane to one's left is yet another unwarranted
overturning of the basic rules of the road as they have long existed
and been known.
Try explaining that if you cause an accident.
Any accident caused by a nearside undertaking (sorry for the tautology)
is the fault of the undertaker.

Never pass to the left of a vehicle (any vehicle, including a
fairy-cycle) signalling left.

It isn't big and isn't clever.

Not even for a fairy-cyclist.

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